“Does that mean…*gasp* people are using knives??? or baseball bats, or little foreign cars, or kung fu, or sticks with sharpened rocks tied to them??

point being, that killers will kill. wether or not they have a gun. if someone wants you dead, but can’t get a gun… I’m pretty sure they won’t drop the whole thing over it.”

I’m actually very glad you brought this up. I think this point is the source of much of the disagreement between the anti/pro gun people. I think the feeling that a lot of people have about guns, and it’s a feeling i can understand, is that the ease with which one can kill/harm others with a gun versus a knife, baseball, etc. makes a vital difference. guns kill easily at a distance, with limited physical exertion - point and pull the trigger. you don’t have to be big and strong or agile to use one.

you might say, “great, that allows people who wouldn’t otherwise be able to defend themselves against stronger people to do so, it evens the playing field.” but it also allows people who wouldn’t otherwise do so to commit crimes and violence.

you cannot ignore the psychological effect of guns- as i mentioned before, for many people they represent power and freedom. but which kind of power and freedom? power to enforce the law, and defend themselves, and freedom to live independently without fear? or power over others and the freedom to do whatever takes one’s fancy?

depends on the owner.

buy Guns Buy Lots of Guns.

In the UK you are now 4 times more likely to be involved in a violent crime against the person than in the US! Over 38% of home invasions/burglarys in the UK are done with the homeowner present as opposed to under 10% in the US… hmmm, I wonder why?

Well, it goes even deeper than the fact that the law-abiding UK population has been disarmed. The 1997 firearms ban opened a hugh doorway to crime, that coupled with a duty to retreat even in your own home and burglary being regarded by the UK criminal justice system as a minor misdemeanor that oft goes unpunished has created a pro criminal culture.

Let’s not even mentioned the unchecked illegal immigration and don’t ask social services network they’re afforded… hmmm, starting to sound familiar.

but lookin at the guncite “stats” for England.

I would say, that England has some pretty high Homicide rates for not having any firearms, and such a smaller population than the US. Does that mean…*gasp* people are using knives??? or baseball bats, or little foreign cars, or kung fu, or sticks with sharpened rocks tied to them??

point being, that killers will kill. wether or not they have a gun. if someone wants you dead, but can’t get a gun… I’m pretty sure they won’t drop the whole thing over it.

I’m not very good at math… but I would say that chart shows England to have a higher homicide rate percentage wise. AND it’s a couple years older than the US stats.

http://www.guncite.com/gun_control_gcgvinco.html

England comes out better no matter how you crunch the numbers. Why? Because illegal guns are also far more difficult to obtain in England than here. I didn’t say that there aren’t gun homicides in england, and this is certainly an interesting story because of the involvement of a young child.

I also conceded that gun control is probably no longer effective in the US because illegal weapons are so easy to find. A critical part of gun control is stopping the flow of “black guns”, and we have much bigger borders than England.

But that doesn’t mean we should start passing out guns to anyone who seems “responsible” enough… If someone wants a gun, and is “responsible”, then sure, they should be able to get one. But I think if you started offering teachers guns (as you suggested) most of them would refuse, and take the risk.

What’s your take on background checks?