Good News from Iraq
02.14.07OMG! I never knew any of this actually happened. I thought we just went over there to blow stuff up, and get our soldiers killed. But no! thats all wrong! How come I haven’t heard any of this from the MSM???
I know thats what all you guys are thinking…
From the video: 98% of children now vaccinated against polio
Guess who did that? The United Nations Children’s Fund (UNICEF). Secondly, it was done before the war in 2003 (as it had been done every year—Iraq’s last polio case was reported in 2000). However, in 2006 we see:
The video then goes on to say: 4,500 schools built or refurbished
None of that work would be necessary if we hadn’t destroyed so many buildings and public facilities (Iraq was generally considered to have the best educational system and best medical facilities in the Middle East). We’ve been hearing this same thing about “schools being built” since 2004. But it’s not as great as it sounds:
The video: 25% of the Iraqi parliament is made up of women
Not surprising, since historically, Iraqi women and girls have enjoyed much more rights than most of their counterparts in the Middle East—it has nothing to do with our invasion. The Iraqi constitution drafted in 1970 guaranteed equal rights to women and other laws specifically ensured their right to vote, attend school, run for political office, and own property. That’s changing now, sinceour invasion:
Chad, you said there are wonderful magical good things that ARE happening in Iraq, but all I’m getting are unverifiable or misleading claims and half-truths from some video that sounds like it’s based on pro-invasion chain letters that have been circulating since 2003.
It’s 2007. What are the wonderful magical good things that have happened in the last year? What exactly is the good news that you think the “MSM” is nefariously concealing from us?
# February 14th, 2007 at 10:20 am18000 new iraqi special forces? that must be a misprint… it should say 18000 us trained and armed future Shia faction militiamen.
just kidding - but keep in mind that it’s a possibility. as for the 30,000 or whatever new businesses - that would make sense considering that many of the existing businesses would have been wiped out or at least weakened by the war, and considering the amount of US tax money funneling in. otherwise, how many private investors do you think you’d find who would be willing to invest in Iraq (who are not involved in the oil industry)? it doesn’t exactly have a great reputation stability and security wise, deserved or not… if it was my money, i wouldn’t be setting up shop there.
but that’s not to say that things haven’t improved, i agree that they, on balance (and this is a very subjective, generalized, judgment) things have probably improved for Iraqis. but was it worth it? was it our business to bring the change about? why aren’t we helping the Sudanese? Zimbabweans? North Koreans? the list goes on.
i think the feeling that a lot of libtards like myself had was that if you wanted to do something to help people and make the world a safer place, the money, troops and energy could have been much better spent, and that this was obvious from the beggining. (i was saying it far before the democrats caught on, and I sure as heck wasn’t the only one)
# February 14th, 2007 at 6:44 pmWhats a Shia?
# February 14th, 2007 at 7:31 pmGlenn Beck is awesome! I miss him on the radio. Where I am now I can’t get him.
SS I’m with you on the possibility that we could be training the Shia army, another Republic Guard? Let’s hope not.
# February 14th, 2007 at 8:11 pmAnd before anyone says something dumb like “Oh, so you’re saying Iraq was a paradise under Saddam?!”
No, I’m not. But Iraq was one of the more progressive Middle Eastern countries with very high employment, exceptional schools and hospitals, etc. Saddam’s depredations notwithstanding, he was a secular dictator, not a Talibanesque Muslim extremist, and that was reflected in Iraqi society to a large extent.
Not to mention that Iraq’s thriving and protected Christian community is virtually decimated now due to the insecurity and instability. Half of Iraq’s Christians have fled.
As a whole, Iraq is NOT better off since our invasion, by almost every objective measure.
# February 15th, 2007 at 9:52 amYou can post a million blogs and Guav is invisible. But if you even mention anything positive about what our troops are doing over there, he pulls out his “Links o’ Doom.”
Guav, I haven’t said anything negative about you in awhile but: You are becoming are as predictable as me making fun of you. 1) Defensive posture 2) Multiple repeated post 3) a slew of random links that prove how intelligent you are.
I feel a migrane coming on.
# February 15th, 2007 at 5:10 pmActually JJ, I popped into the last post about that worthless ho-bag Anna Nicole Smith, not this one. This entry is an extension of the conversation we were having there.
I’m not talking about “what our troops are doing over there,” I do not have any complaints about our troops and never did. Pointing out that Iraq has devolved into even more of a hellhole than it was is not a reflection of how I think our troops have conducted themselves—our troops are doing their jobs, and doing it as well as they can given the circumstances.
But when you send the finest military in the world on a fool’s errand under false pretexts to complete a mission that’s possible only in the feverdreams of neoconservative intellectuals and they fail, that is not a reflection on the troops, it is a reflection of the historically ignorant, morally bankrupt engineers of the policy.
You’re predictable as well, my old friend. 1) Whine about the fact that I’ve commented 2) Make a snarky comment about how much you dislike me 3) Ignore the actual arguments being made and pretend that your ignorance is a virtue.
Take some aspirin for that.
# February 15th, 2007 at 7:48 pmI do agree with you that our troops are doing what they are told to do… and doing the best that they can I do not feel that this mission is an impossible one. You my friend have a defeatist attitude… unless I am misinterpreting what you are saying.
The goal is simple, the solution is not. Help the Iraqi people establish some sort of civilized society by ousting their dictator and giving them what they need to form some sort of government that fosters freedom.
Even before 9/11 my political science professor made the comment that it takes a minimum of 10 years to establish a democracy in a nation-state that was once ruled by a heavy handed totalitarian. Now throw their “Jihadist” religion in the mix… you have a mission that is uphill but far from impossible (or as you like to call a “fool’s errand”).
How many countries have moved on from dictatorship? Many have. You people (yes I just call you “you people”) seem to either forget history or make unsubstantiated remarks about how this situation is sooooo different than all other (which it is to a degree, but not enough to render the mission a “fool’s errrand”)
Respectfully, I think you are the fool. Also, I did take some aspirin and I have feeling quite better.
# February 15th, 2007 at 9:14 pm“thousands of serbs were slaughtered in 4 years”
“a couple million+ south-americans were slaughtered in 21 years”
“6,000,000…..probably 10,000,000 jews were slaughtered in 12 years with extremely efficient methods”
20,000,000 Indians were eliminated in 20+ years with inefficient but cruel methods……class lets not forget who the bad guys are………”
Don’t get caught up in kim jon , and saddam, and chad.
PLEASE………….just…………………………don’t:shock:
# February 15th, 2007 at 11:01 pmIf my attitude is defeatist, then yours is utopian. I prefer to think of mine as merely realistic and yours as unrealistic. That’s why when we were told that this would be a cakewalk, that we would be greeted with flower parades and candy and that the post-war reconstruction would go great, realists said no, it will not.
I’m sure you heard about the ridiculously unrealistic pre-war plans revealed yesterday in now-declassified powerpoint slides presented by Tommy Franks in 2002 that said by 2007…
I didn’t think we were setting ourselves up for a fall because I’m a pessimist—I’m not a pessimist—but because I recognize the limits of what military force can and cannot accomplish. That’s all.
That goal is NOT simple JJ, it’s delusional. You don’t “give” people democracy. Democracy is not something you install—it’s something that people fight for on their own, if they want it. But it’s pure hubris to assume that everyone on the planet regardless of culture wants democracy—they quite clearly do not always want that.
Yes, but not as a result of invasions from outside sources. And all too often, our government has supported those dictators against the popular forces that sought to overthrow them.
What history am I forgetting? Educate me, please.
Well, when I make a point to substantiate the things I say, you make fun of me for providing links. You’re the one who generally makes unsubstantiated claims, not me.
I realize that, and that’s fine. But I’m the fool who’s been right about almost everything regarding Iraq since before we invaded, and “you people” have been exactly wrong about almost everything. But because “you people” promoted this strategic blunder for so long, and you are deeply invested in finding a way to salvage it. The only way you have left is by refusing to accept the reality that the Iraq war which you cheered on and enabled is a profound failure, and you are therefore intent on finding a way to salvage at least the apperance of success, if not the reality.
So you guys promote videos that showcase modest successes from three years ago and try to pretend that everything is going Really Super Well, and fool yourselves into believing that there is a substantial amount of progress and good news coming out of Iraq that the Evil Media Conspiracy is suppressing.
There’s not.
# February 16th, 2007 at 11:00 amI guess the 1 million Iraqis that are estimated to flee the country this year wouldn’t know nearly as much about the situation in Iraq as Glenn Beck does. Those fools obviously have not seen the video.
# February 16th, 2007 at 12:54 pmGuav, again, you are the man and all of us are mere imbeciles. Our vision is unrealistic and yours is true, right, and just. You are right, we are wrong. You are incredibly good looking and we are all vile. You have always been right on Iraq, and we will always be delusional. You dissect history and always provide adequate reference by sharing amazing and highly non-slanted internet news links and we just rely on our twisted morals and impaired intelligence.
I don’t get angry with you anymore Guav. I will just chuckle and stroke your inflated ego.
# February 16th, 2007 at 7:30 pmMightiest Weapon on earth………..
1. The Bear(Russian Federation strato-bomber…..duh)?
2. The Ion Cannon(doesn’t really exist……..bummer)?
3. The Thermo nuclear bomb?
4. Religion ?
# February 16th, 2007 at 8:24 pmHeath,
“Shia” is the adjective for a group of Shiite Muslims. Shiites and Sunnis are the two largest Muslim sects. Shiites are majority in Iraq (60%ish I think) and Sunnis the minority (30%ish). Saddam was Sunni, and most Iraqi Shiites were pretty pissed that a member of the minority sect was in power, so there is the danger (and to a certain extent the reality) that they will use the new government, which is now disproprtionately Shiite (because the Sunnis in many areas, including Fallujah and Tikrit, have boycotted what they consider to be illegitimate elections) to exact political revenge on the Sunnis. Most of the insurgent groups that blow up Iraqi and American soldiers are Sunni. So what we may be training instead of an Iraqi Army is an Iraqi Shiite Militia. Some evidence of this has already appeared, with reports of Army soldiers moonlighting in Shiite death squads, etc. but the verdict is not yet in…
JJ,
# February 17th, 2007 at 7:49 amCUT OUT THE PERSONAL ATTACKS PLEASE. Are you capable of argument? Of addressing any of the issues Guav has brought up? Or are you just going to continue calling him “egotistical” for being right? Please just stop responding to serious posts, and let Chad and CS do the hard thinking. At least they can come up with actually counterarguments and evidence sometimes. Which argument specifically do you object to? Is there a certain fact that Guav has presented which you believe is misleading or incorrect? Or is that you know you are wrong but don’t want to admit it?
Personal attacks? Quit being so oversensitive. I told Guav “respectfully I thought he was being the fool” AFTER he insinuated I was. Then he went on his little rant saying what I wrote was delusional.
Simon, I think you should probably not keep your anal-ysis to yourself. I responded to Guav’s opinion and he decided to mock my ideals. I responded with sarcasm. And quite frankly it’s none of your damn business. Now buzz off.
# February 17th, 2007 at 8:52 amI respectfully think that you are an ignoramus.
# February 17th, 2007 at 12:44 pmI respectfully think you are a child who needs to fight his own battles.
# February 17th, 2007 at 4:35 pmJJ, I’m not smarter than you. I’m not more intelligent than you. I am better informed than you. There’s a difference.
You choose to get your information from people that consistently mislead you and put all sorts of ideas in your head that are simply not supported by history or human nature. And you’re not critical enough of the information they provide and the ridiculous nonsense they write.
It’s within your power to change that anytime you want to—stop taking government propaganda on faith. I thought conservatives were supposed to be wary of the state, not it’s unquestioning lapdogs.
You can continue to revel in your good ol’ boy anti-intellectualism, but I only graduated high school. I’m no smarter than you. So stop pretending this is about me thinking I’m more intelligent than you, because I don’t. It’s not about me and you at all. Address the topics and the arguments being discussed. Nobody cares what you think of me as a person, least of all me.
# February 17th, 2007 at 7:16 pmGuav, you make me laugh with your silly talk.
# February 18th, 2007 at 12:28 amHi Guys.
I do not know what to think. Once I watched a TV report showing the decadence of health, education and public services during the last years of Saddam regime. If thats true, we cannot blame that on UN sanctions, because at the same time, Saddam was building lots of expensive luxurious palaces among other ways of wasting Iraqi money.
# February 20th, 2007 at 7:02 am