I do not know what to think. Once I watched a TV report showing the decadence of health, education and public services during the last years of Saddam regime. If thats true, we cannot blame that on UN sanctions, because at the same time, Saddam was building lots of expensive luxurious palaces among other ways of wasting Iraqi money.

You choose to get your information from people that consistently mislead you and put all sorts of ideas in your head that are simply not supported by history or human nature. And you’re not critical enough of the information they provide and the ridiculous nonsense they write.

It’s within your power to change that anytime you want to—stop taking government propaganda on faith. I thought conservatives were supposed to be wary of the state, not it’s unquestioning lapdogs.

You can continue to revel in your good ol’ boy anti-intellectualism, but I only graduated high school. I’m no smarter than you. So stop pretending this is about me thinking I’m more intelligent than you, because I don’t. It’s not about me and you at all. Address the topics and the arguments being discussed. Nobody cares what you think of me as a person, least of all me.

Simon, I think you should probably not keep your anal-ysis to yourself. I responded to Guav’s opinion and he decided to mock my ideals. I responded with sarcasm. And quite frankly it’s none of your damn business. Now buzz off.

JJ,
CUT OUT THE PERSONAL ATTACKS PLEASE. Are you capable of argument? Of addressing any of the issues Guav has brought up? Or are you just going to continue calling him “egotistical” for being right? Please just stop responding to serious posts, and let Chad and CS do the hard thinking. At least they can come up with actually counterarguments and evidence sometimes. Which argument specifically do you object to? Is there a certain fact that Guav has presented which you believe is misleading or incorrect? Or is that you know you are wrong but don’t want to admit it?

Mightiest Weapon on earth………..

1. The Bear(Russian Federation strato-bomber…..duh)?

2. The Ion Cannon(doesn’t really exist……..bummer)?

3. The Thermo nuclear bomb?

4. Religion ?

I don’t get angry with you anymore Guav. I will just chuckle and stroke your inflated ego.

You my friend have a defeatist attitude

If my attitude is defeatist, then yours is utopian. I prefer to think of mine as merely realistic and yours as unrealistic. That’s why when we were told that this would be a cakewalk, that we would be greeted with flower parades and candy and that the post-war reconstruction would go great, realists said no, it will not.

I’m sure you heard about the ridiculously unrealistic pre-war plans revealed yesterday in now-declassified powerpoint slides presented by Tommy Franks in 2002 that said by 2007…

…a stable, Democratic Iraq would emerge following the fall of Saddam Hussein and that Iraqis would move swiftly to establish their own pro-American government. The U.S. would need just 5000 troops in Iraq by December of 2006.

I didn’t think we were setting ourselves up for a fall because I’m a pessimist—I’m not a pessimist—but because I recognize the limits of what military force can and cannot accomplish. That’s all.

The goal is simple, the solution is not. Help the Iraqi people establish some sort of civilized society by ousting their dictator and giving them what they need to form some sort of government that fosters freedom.

That goal is NOT simple JJ, it’s delusional. You don’t “give” people democracy. Democracy is not something you install—it’s something that people fight for on their own, if they want it. But it’s pure hubris to assume that everyone on the planet regardless of culture wants democracy—they quite clearly do not always want that.

How many countries have moved on from dictatorship? Many have.

Yes, but not as a result of invasions from outside sources. And all too often, our government has supported those dictators against the popular forces that sought to overthrow them.

You people seem to either forget history

What history am I forgetting? Educate me, please.

or make unsubstantiated remarks…

Well, when I make a point to substantiate the things I say, you make fun of me for providing links. You’re the one who generally makes unsubstantiated claims, not me.

Respectfully, I think you are the fool.

I realize that, and that’s fine. But I’m the fool who’s been right about almost everything regarding Iraq since before we invaded, and “you people” have been exactly wrong about almost everything. But because “you people” promoted this strategic blunder for so long, and you are deeply invested in finding a way to salvage it. The only way you have left is by refusing to accept the reality that the Iraq war which you cheered on and enabled is a profound failure, and you are therefore intent on finding a way to salvage at least the apperance of success, if not the reality.

So you guys promote videos that showcase modest successes from three years ago and try to pretend that everything is going Really Super Well, and fool yourselves into believing that there is a substantial amount of progress and good news coming out of Iraq that the Evil Media Conspiracy is suppressing.

There’s not.

“thousands of serbs were slaughtered in 4 years”

“a couple million+ south-americans were slaughtered in 21 years”

“6,000,000…..probably 10,000,000 jews were slaughtered in 12 years with extremely efficient methods”

20,000,000 Indians were eliminated in 20+ years with inefficient but cruel methods……class lets not forget who the bad guys are………”

Don’t get caught up in kim jon , and saddam, and chad.

PLEASE………….just…………………………don’t:shock:

The goal is simple, the solution is not. Help the Iraqi people establish some sort of civilized society by ousting their dictator and giving them what they need to form some sort of government that fosters freedom.

Even before 9/11 my political science professor made the comment that it takes a minimum of 10 years to establish a democracy in a nation-state that was once ruled by a heavy handed totalitarian. Now throw their “Jihadist” religion in the mix… you have a mission that is uphill but far from impossible (or as you like to call a “fool’s errand”).

How many countries have moved on from dictatorship? Many have. You people (yes I just call you “you people”) seem to either forget history or make unsubstantiated remarks about how this situation is sooooo different than all other (which it is to a degree, but not enough to render the mission a “fool’s errrand”)

Respectfully, I think you are the fool. Also, I did take some aspirin and I have feeling quite better.