Zach Doty, Second Ammendment Patriot
09.22.07Zach is an inspiration for me to open carry. He mentioned on a forum that he’s thinkin of starting a open carry awareness club. I sent him a message, stating I was interested. So hopefully he’ll respond. He’s pretty famous at this point, since all this was happening back in April and May.
POST FALLS, Idaho — Two home-schooled teenagers in this northern Idaho town say they are carrying loaded guns to the library, grocery store and other public areas for self-defense, as a crime deterrent, and to educate others about their rights.
Zach Doty, 18, carries a loaded Glock handgun on his hip. His 15-year-old brother, Steven, carries a .22-caliber rifle in a sling on his back.
Police have been called on several occasions to question the teens but have not found the teens to be in violation of the law.
In Idaho, residents 18 and older can openly carry a firearm in public. And those ages 13 to 17 who have parental permission can carry a rifle in public.
“I certainly don’t anticipate that I’ll need to use it, but I’d rather have it and not need it than to not have it and need it,” Zach told the Coeur d’Alene Press. “There’s no reason for me to hide a weapon.”
Zach was stopped April 17 on his way to Bible study. On Friday, police again responded when someone reported the brothers with guns in a park. But police left after confirming it was the Doty’s. More »
People are stupid, paranoid, and ignorant of the facts. And what would be the point of having an open carry law if you have to deal with being stopped and have a background check ran every time some douche bags calls the cops out of ignorant fear? They need to work on that.
# September 23rd, 2007 at 4:09 amThats the reason why these kids are doing this. To raise awareness of their right to do so. The more that people OC, the more people will learn about their own rights.
I’m gonna start OC’ing on occasion.
# September 23rd, 2007 at 9:04 amLOL, the cop said what if he dropped it and it went of! LMAO, what a class act… real happy to sleep at night safely knowing sharp tacks like him are on the job.
Chad don’t you have a CCW?
If I open carried here (which you can do in Commiefrornia, believe it or not) I’d be lucky to make to the end of the street before some SacPD idiot shot me.
# September 23rd, 2007 at 1:00 pmYou watch some local fascist (liberal progressive) try and put a local ordinance on the book to regulate or stop this, you know it’s coming.
# September 23rd, 2007 at 1:02 pmStevil - I do have a CCW. but if more people OC’d then more people would learn that it is their right to do so. Whereas nobody would have the opportunity to learn if they didnt know I was carrying.
In defense of the cop, he did say that tripping with the gun going off was “people’s concern” not neccesarily his concern.
And I’d expect this kind of treatment in California. But it’s a shame that they’re Idaho cops doing it. (truth be told, I’m sure they’re from California just like alot of us)
# September 23rd, 2007 at 5:31 pmI feel like OC actually hurts the 2A cause. The fact is, the majority of Americans are not members of the Brady Campaign or the NRA, they’re just normal people, and open carry freaks the f**k out of them. To paraphrase another gun blogger has said, “Don’t scare the white people.”
Most people in this country fit a certain demographic. That demographic is the prototypical family with two cars, 2.4 kids, stability, owns a home, is in debt, etc. Most decisions in this country in terms of legislation center around what these people think. So, when I say white people, that’s who I mean. Don’t scare them. If you scare them off by appearing excessively gun nutty, then you’re turning the people who politicians almost exclusively pander to against you.
I think open carry does this. I also think carrying open just ’cause you can is unecessarily pushing it in people’s faces, and could have an unintended backlash. If you scare enough white people, OC could be repealed. And a lot of these “white people” don’t even know that CCW exists, cause they don’t pay attention to this stuff at all. If the debate about OC becomes high-profile, many people who didn’t even know there were gunnies carrying concealed all around them could cause a groundswell of opposition even to that.
# September 24th, 2007 at 9:53 amGuav - I understand that viewpoint, and do consider it pretty valid. But I think it can go both ways, and is ultimately a gamble on which way it will lean.
On one hand, alot of the “white folks” who never really thought about their 2A rights, will learn something new, appreciate it, and exercise them and work to further those rights.
On the other hand, alot of the “white folks” who never really thought about their 2A rights, will learn something new, be extremely against it, and work to remove that right.
I know from personal experience, which isn’t extremely vast. But when I make new friends and (as always) we end up discussing guns and gun rights… when they learn that I have a CCW, the majority has always been:
a. glad we all have the right to have one
b. wouldn’t get one themselves, but are glad that people do
c. gone out and got one the next week.
So I guess I would agree, that OC’ing could easily go both ways, and alot of it depends on the local majorities view of the subject.
A very valid point that Zach Doty brought up, was that the more people “don’t talk about or exercise” their rights, the easier they go away.
If we have the right to walk around OC’ing, and the more people did it, the more people would be at ease with it. The more educated people would become. And the more of a social norm it would be. That is my biggest desire. To remove the shroud of mystery surrounding guns.
I believe that most kids who get into dads or grandpas guns, and misuse them, is because they are so mystified by them. they’ve never received and education or experienced them. so now their curiosity gets the best of them, and they arnt’ prepared for using these tools.
I want the public to be at ease with civilians with guns.
# September 24th, 2007 at 10:57 amDamn those white, outside of New York City, “I have no clue about the Constitution”, “I am a middle american drone” sheeple. Pshhhh
Wigga pleeze.
# September 24th, 2007 at 12:00 pmI hope that wasn’t too sarcastic.
# September 24th, 2007 at 12:13 pmOn the other hand, alot of folks will learn something new, be extremely against it, and work to remove that right.
Agreed in full. However, there are more of the second type of person than the first, when it comes right down to it.
I want the public to be at ease with civilians with guns as well. But they are barely OK with CCW right now. I don’t agree at all that the more people that open carry will make more people at ease with it—I think open carrying as a means of essentially “forcing” people to choose a side as to whether they support civilians carrying guns is seriously, seriously going to bite us in the ass.
I agree completely. But educating children with regards to proper gun handling and making adults comfortable with open carry is really two entirely different issues.
No matter how much we educate people, the majority of average Americans are never going to be comfortable with dudes walking around with guns on their hips, and I really think it’s out of touch to think otherwise.
And remember, I am saying this as a gun owner and pro-2A person. I share your goals of wanting to educate the public. I just think OC is way too much of an in-your-face way to do it, and ultimately will turn people off from even being willing to learn anything at all.
Open carry really does make us look like extremist gun nuts. It’s not a winning strategy.
# September 24th, 2007 at 1:32 pmMcCrary bro’s
# September 24th, 2007 at 1:49 pmDang it… looking at the gavatars I should have used the same photographer you guys used…
1) Everyone wears a stupid trucker hat.
# September 24th, 2007 at 2:27 pm2) Everyone has the myspace “I am so cool/hot/desperate/etc” look on their face. (except for JJ… way to be different buddy)
3) there should be rules posted.
sean…
1) wrong thread. how about rules for that too? 20 pushups. go.
# September 24th, 2007 at 2:42 pm2) yer avatar looks more like a charlie chaplin film. not a very good representation.
Why thank you Sean. You see, I am quite content and humble about my badassry. Instead of wasting time trying to look like a baddass, I just am a badass. It’s a simple concept really.
# September 24th, 2007 at 2:59 pmMy gravatar is a joke, of course—I’m just trying desperately to fit in.
If you guys saw me in my normal Blue State Elite™ outfit of assless pleather chaps with a Che Guevera shirt holding a latte, I’d be banned here.
# September 24th, 2007 at 3:05 pmHey Im not wearing a trucker hat! Although the pose is very “I’m freakin cool” but it was done on purpose.
I reference here.
Anyway, Im really here to say that the whole problem is that people fear guns. Fearing guns is just stupid and wrong. The only reason people fear guns is that all they ever learn about them is how they are “so dangerous”. There’s not enough firearms education and thus all of their fears are based off of ignorance.
The only way to win this battle is to educate your children. Teach them the rules of firearms so they respect them but do not fear them. Teach them to realize that these are TOOLS….not death machines. It is a monumental failure on the parents fault that children are growing up and learning from their hippy teachers that guns are products of teh devilz!
**Off topik but I just noticed something here. “Hippy” is considered a typo. WTF!?!?!
# September 24th, 2007 at 7:07 pmCos’ Hippy is should be spelt Hippie.
# September 24th, 2007 at 10:25 pm….crap…
# September 24th, 2007 at 11:14 pm